Recently, a nurse left a lengthy comment on my website in response to an article where I had encouraged women to recognize their value, and demand that others respect them for it—and especially in their maternity care. The nurse who commented (I will call her Mary) was extremely skeptical of the idea that women are being traumatized by their care providers in maternity care.
She said, “These stories have been around as long as I can remember” and dismissed it all–all of the “websites, books, videos, and posts” recounting mistreatment–as “one-sided emotional testimony” and a “disrespectful escalated explosion of a conglomerate of embellished misunderstandings.” (Her full comment is here.)
Mary’s argument is constructed on the basis that women in labor are not capable of accurately remembering what happened to them, or are too emotionally invested to be credible witnesses, and that medical staff are, across the board, acting in the best interests of their patients.
I think Mary’s view gives us a pretty accurate peephole into an operating system that tells traumatized women, over and over, “Surely what was done to you was out of medical necessity. You can’t understand what was happening; there’s more to the story. You should just be grateful you have a healthy baby. Stop talking.”
I’ll just say right here that I’ve spoken with hundreds of these women, and I’ve discussed every detail of their births with many of them, and I’ve also spoken to their doulas, husbands, and birth partners. If anything, I would say that most women underplay their mistreatment.
It doesn’t take a medical degree to recognize disrespect and abuse any more than you have to have a criminal justice degree to say, “My husband beats me,” or, “That kid just stole my purse.”
But, all the same, I thought I’d reach out to some medical professionals, nurses like Mary and a physician’s assistant, to see how they respond to her comments. Their statements are here. Maybe Mary, and others who don’t believe women, will take their word for it. My apologies for the length of these comments; I didn’t want to cut a word.
In the meantime, I encourage women, once again, to keep speaking up. Do not be silenced.
(Mary’s comment can be seen in full here)
Response from L&D Registered Nurse, Northeast (10+ years)
Dear Mary,
I feel like I know you. I too have worked as a nurse in Labor & Delivery, for awhile–over a decade–you are like the nurses I have worked with on many nights, weekends, and holidays. When things get tough, I look to the senior nurses like you to have my back, and I promise you, I’ve got yours. We know how to save lives, and when a mother seizes or a cord prolapses, we come together and fight like hell to save our mothers’ and babies’ lives.
Mary, I know you have worked very hard to come as far as you have in your career. It’s back-breaking, emotionally draining, really hard work. We care, a lot, or we would not have made it as long as we have in our jobs.
These women are begging for you and me to listen to their stories. It’s really, really hard to hear, and or accept, that we have ever hurt the women we care for. But the truth is, we have, and we do.
The experiences you refer to as “claims”, told by these brave women, are so common that we as medical birth workers, just can’t see them. We can’t recognize the horror, because we are numb to it. We expect it. It is our way of maternity care and birth. These stories are the tip of the iceberg.
I have a decade of stories I could tell, but haven’t, because if I do, I know I will lose my job. Have you ever had a patient come in after having had her membranes swept, but not knowing that the doctor was going to do it? Have you ever told a normal laboring woman that she can’t eat anything, or get out of bed, or go to the bathroom? Have you ever witnessed a person in hard labor sign her birth consents in the middle of her transition contractions? Have you ever done a vaginal exam on a woman who looks like she doesn’t want one? Have you ever handed the physician the Amni-hook to break a woman’s water, without explaining all the risks nor asking her consent? Have you ever left a woman on a monitor indefinitely because it was just easier for you? Have you treated a patient or known another nurse who treated a patient differently because she was young or AMA, African American, Indian, a non-English speaking person, or LGBTQ? Have you ever watched the physician grab the scissors and cut while the mother was pushing so she wouldn’t notice? Have you ever heard a nurse tell a woman to be quiet- to stop yelling? Have you ever attended a cesarean where a mother is anxious and yells out that she can feel it, and you see everyone in the room roll their eyes in disbelief? Have you ever started an induction on someone who has absolutely no idea why they are being induced? Have you ever sat around the nurses’ station and made fun of a birth plan? Have you ever stamped a cesarean chart for a patient just because she had a birth plan? Have you stood and watched the physician who reaches into the uterus of all his unmedicated mothers after they give birth, just to make sure there was no placenta left behind? Have you ever heard parents being told that they technically can refuse any treatment- but do they really want their baby to die? Have you known a physician who diagnosed failure to progress, when really, we all know it was because they had to get ready for their Super Bowl party? Have you ever strapped a woman’s arms down to restrain her from moving in cesarean? And Mary, on and on and on.
I just don’t believe that you have never done or witnessed any of these things. WE ALL HAVE.
Mary, some women are telling us that they feel like they were raped or sexually assaulted in their birth experience. Have you ever known someone who has been raped? Even if you say no, statistically it’s impossible for you to not know someone who has been raped. Victims of rape don’t feel like they can safely tell anyone about it, so we hardly ever hear their stories. Well, I have been raped. I lost a friend once when she very emphatically proclaimed that there are two sides to rape. Indeed, there’s the side of the victim, and that of the rapist. Should we give all the rapists equal opportunity to incorporate their viewpoint in the exact rape as reported by the victim? Mary, do you feel that would give us a more balanced perspective on rape as well?
Do you know how many times I have heard women say, “do I have to have Pitocin?” I have heard many nurses and physicians and even midwives say, “Yes, honey, you do. Some women just aren’t capable of doing it on their own.” Mary, have you ever been taking care of a laboring patient, maybe she’s moving slowly, but doing just fine–and you come out to the desk, and the physician’s order to start Pitocin is already written in the chart? No discussion with the mother, no discussion with you, the nurse? And have you ever then been in the situation where you have to confront the physician, or found it was just easier to tell the laboring woman that this is just how it “needs” to be?
Mary, have you ever been in the physician’s line of fire, on their bad side, in their way? Have you never known a physician or midwife who would make a nurse’s job a living hell for simply questioning their orders for starting Pit on a mother whose water broke just 2 hours before?
Do you really work in a teaching hospital? How many births? I can’t tell you how many births I’ve attended where the attending physician was fast asleep while the resident “delivered” births. Have two (or three or four+) babies ever been born at the same time in your hospital? Because they sure as heck have been where I work. Most laboring women don’t know they have the right to request a different physician or nurse.
A basic nursing tenet is that “pain is what our patients say it is.” These women are telling us about their pain. It is time we listen. We cannot pretend that we don’t know what these women are talking about. Mary, we are not bad people. Please, for the love of what’s right, please consider some deep self-reflection of the roles we play.
You said, “People experiencing life altering events such as childbirth are even more susceptible to tainted memories in the absence of understanding.” Except, Mary, those with PTSD, who live stuck in never-ending nightmares of having their trauma play over and over and over again. They never escape the terror they lived through. Many wish they would have just died, because the living hell of replaying the scariest day of their life, feels worse than the actual event.
You said, “Birth plans are wonderful and encouraged… A birth plan however is truly a tentative request. The true ‘plan’ is dictated by the acuity and current events. Looking back it seems that many of these woman had many similarities in their early OB choices all the way up to their tragic event.”
Mary, birth plans are seen as a joke in L&D. I wholeheartedly agree that birth plans are wonderful and should be encouraged- but I have never seen a birth plan that hasn’t received an eyeroll where I have worked–and many physicians flat out refuse to read them. Indeed, acuity and how the labor and birth unpredictably unfolds, will determine what interventions and decisions need to be made, but no, Mary, NO! The plan is dictated by the laboring person, the decisions are hers to make–not mine, not yours, not any midwife’s, nor any physician.
If we want to prevent trauma, then we need to stop being condescending and trust that there is nobody on the planet who cares about that baby more than the parents do. We need to meet these women and families where they are, and build a mutually respectful and trustful connection through their birth. We need to thoroughly explain all benefits and risks of any proposed intervention, and support our patients in their decision making. We need to always explain what we need to do, and ask before we perform any routine procedure. I have never had a birthing patient refuse true emergency care for herself or her baby, despite her birth plan (except in rare situations with families who hold extreme religious views.) It is only when she feels powerless and unheard and disregarded that her birth becomes traumatic. If she ever felt talked down to, was starved, was isolated, was strapped down, told not to move or to be quiet, or threatened that she would kill her baby if she didn’t comply–she will undoubtedly be traumatized.
Mary, we can fix this. The women in these stories aren’t blaming you or me. They are speaking out because they believe that by telling their stories, maybe other women will not have to go through what they experienced. You and I can play a profound role in preventing further harm. The first step is for us to listen, and be honest with ourselves. What we do, what we say, and how we treat women makes a big difference.
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Response from: L&D Registered Nurse, West Coast (16 years)
As a traveling L&D RN for over 16 years, and a doula for 15 years before that (we called it “labor support”) I can tell you from my experience in hospitals all over the US, that “these stories” are not only true, subjectively AND objectively, but that for every one story we read, there are ten, twenty, a thousand more that haven’t been told. I, myself could tell you these stories all night, things I have seen, and actually participated in. I am not proud of it, either, and I am here to start to break the silence, and to bring about some big changes in this broken system.
I, too, have noticed an underlying pattern with each of these “claims,” as you condescendingly put it. The underlying pattern is, to put it bluntly, institutionalized, organized, tolerated, unspoken-about, kept-in-the-dark, obstetrical violence. The pattern of subjecting women to uncaring, often unsafe, non-evidence based, at times dangerous, humiliating, “medical” practices.
Yes, these “stories” are presented only from the “subjective” view of the birthing mother. How could a woman giving birth, present in the room the entire time, feeling every sensation, hearing every word spoken, possibly be objective! I am part of the “medical staff involved” in daily deliveries and I am here to say: believe it. Believe them. Start believing women who are hurt, injured, humiliated, embarrassed, talked down to, and deceived.
The reason we are hearing all these “stories” now is there are finally places to tell them! Just like when Anita Hill came forward with her experiences of sexual harassment by Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas, suddenly, women everywhere came out of the woodwork to reveal and share their OWN experiences of sexual harassment. And now, it’s time for a new generation of women to be heard.
You want balance? My two cents is this: the care they got was actually worse than they knew. The nurses at the desk talked about them behind their backs. The babies who suffered hypoxia, low apgar scores, and possibly brain injury, you know what they say? They say “Well, THAT baby isn’t going to Harvard.” They say: “That baby is going to be taking the short bus.” You show them your earnest, well researched birth plan, you know what they say? They say: “Get out the c-section consent, this one has a birth plan.” That is just the tip of the iceberg. Do you know why your baby ended up in the NICU with sepsis, on several types of antibiotics, separated from you and getting blood cultures and a lumbar puncture? Because your doctor broke your water and checked your cervix too many times, and gave you, yes, GAVE YOU an infection. Have I ever heard a doctor express remorse for this? No, not one time, ever.
You write: “From each story there is usually an initial claim that stands out as ‘impossible’ to a medical professional which instantly discredits the story.” Yes, our patients very often don’t understand how things are done. They make mistakes in their interpretation of things that happened. True. But to discredit their experience, to pick it apart like some sort of courtroom drama, to prove a victim is mistaken, or lying, or exaggerating, is dirty pool. Perhaps there has been prolonged rupture of membranes (perhaps the doctor broke her water when she was 2 centimeters, and then checked her every hour till she had a fever of 102?). What is wrong with this picture? It doesn’t matter if these women don’t get the medical details just right, the poor treatment is still happening! And you can’t discredit it because consumers aren’t medical experts.
I have had women try to decline residents, many a time, only to be told that their practitioner is not on call, or busy at another delivery, etc., and that another attending can attend them, yes. Someone they haven’t met and who is, basically, no closer to her than the resident at hand. In fact, if these attendings do catch the baby, they are often irritated and rushed. But yes, a woman can refuse it. How many women know this? And how many of the ones who do, actually exercise this right? I have seen that happen maybe three times in my 30 years at the bedside.
Your statement that a woman “truly doesn’t have a full understanding of what occurred” is correct, in that, no, she doesn’t fully understand the medical jargon, treatment, decisions, etc. Nor do the medical staff have a full understanding of what occurred IN HER EXPERIENCE. Can we at least say it’s even here? That neither side gets what the other is feeling and experiencing? We believe the doctors version, but not the patient’s? Because….? And then the patients try to speak about it, we deny that they had that experience?
I have been present for a few of the debriefings you describe, and yes, they should happen more often, and yes, they are helpful. What is always missing there is the mother and father’s feelings and experience. No one asks and no one listens. Parents who express distress are seen as a legal threat, and risk management is sent in to try and diffuse the situation before it escalates to a lawsuit. Not exactly helpful to the parents.
I can’t even begin to respond to the statement “so many seemingly fabricated traumatic birth stories.” Seemingly fabricated? I’m just going to be professional here, and say, you have got to be kidding. Fabricated traumatic birth stories?
You go on to say that women who seek out a nurse midwife for their care and delivery are doing so because of what “appears to be due to their reception of the stories found on these types of websites” (on what basis, exactly, are you making this statement?). Might I suggest, instead, that it could be that nurse midwives have a vastly better reputation for providing holistic, respectful care, that supports women and families in having a safe, empowering birth, while at the same time, being as safe, if not safer, than a physician? That these women have done their homework, looked at research and outcomes, and sought out the best care possible? And yes, they get to have a “preconceived plan” for the way they want their birth experience. Bravo for them for seeking out the best practitioner to give them what they want. In other places, this is called being an informed consumer.
And you say that these women choosing non-physician birth attendants might “simply have an intense need for control.” You think? Control over the most important day of their lives? We get to have more control over our experience shopping at K Mart, or getting our oil changed, than we do giving birth in the hospital. Yes, we should get to have quite a lot of control over our bodies, and what happens to them. Shame on you for disregarding this basic human right and need. And yes, the fact IS that birth is not predictable or controllable, and that is precisely why there must be a trust built and honored, why women need to be included in their care, and have the risks and benefits explained to them as if they were intelligent, sentient beings rather than faceless bodies lying on a bed.
And yes, these women have responsibly showed up for prenatal care, read their books, looked on the internet, and they are aware, obviously, of the risk. The blame is not about normal, tragic risks of birth. The blame and the anger are about being lied to, having their genitals touched and invaded roughly, over and over, by numerous strangers, not being told honestly about risks, not being included in decision making, as if they were less than the intelligent, conscientious, adult women they are. Personally, my patients are happy with their care, because I make sure that they are treated with respect and kindness. That’s mostly what these women want. Their so-called “one sided emotional testimony” is valid. These women’s words are NOT a “disrespectful escalated explosion of a conglomerate of embellished misunderstandings”…. they are women’s experiences. And they are true. And I see it happening, over and over, day after day, year after year. It’s time to listen to the women. Beyond time. The videos that are coming out on the internet of these kinds of births tell the objective truth. It’s really that bad out there.
So, if the woman who wrote this comment would really like me to write an article that considers the perceptions of at least the nurse in the room, I’d be more than happy to write, and write and write. But I doubt she’d like to see that article. I don’t need a “memory specialist”–I can consult the chart. It’s often spelled out there. Why do you think that OBs are sued for malpractice, more than almost any other specialty? Testimony, charting, evidence, a court of law. That tells you something.
I am so glad that women are speaking out about this and other forms of sexual violence. I believe you, brave warriors. Speak up. Keep speaking up. Time to break this system. I know that amazing, safe births are possible, and your words are slowly chipping away at the problem, and one day, the wall will come down. Thank you for your courage. I BELIEVE YOU.
Response from: Physician Assistant, California (2 years)
I would love to know where this woman works, because she should use the fact that these situations “never” happen at her hospital as advertisement.
The way Pitocin was ordered in my hospital was like this. The nurse or resident checks the patient, determines that they’re not progressing as desired and the doctor orders Pitocin. Sometimes the nurse would ask for it and the resident would agree, sometimes the resident would do so on their own. Then the Pitocin was ordered, sent from the pharmacy, and the patient was informed (maybe) that they were going to be given “something to speed up labor.” Very rarely did a resident ever go into the room to explain anything prior to or after ordering and very rarely did I hear a nurse discuss this with a patient. I can also confirm that it was unusual a patient was asked about any of this. So I suppose if a patient happened to even know what was going on, then yes, she could discuss it with the resident, assuming they weren’t in the OR or in another delivery.
Mary doesn’t believe women about non-consented episiotomies because she’s seen women say scalpels were used, rather than scissors. I agree I have never seen an episiotomy cut with a scalpel; scalpels were not a part of the “delivery” set up at the hospitals I’ve worked at, however I would not be surprised if someone told me a scalpel was used, also not certain it would even make a difference? At the end of the day: it’s still a cut to the perineum!
As far as what Mary says about vacuums and residents attending… IF a patient is even aware that a resident is “delivering them” (which my guess is they’re not as the doctor is running in the room when the baby is crowning), my experience is very little questioning or refusal is going on at that point. Now if the resident is in the room for awhile, then yes, the mom could definitely ask if they were a resident (I had a few women ask how old I was when I was present for their delivery) and request an attending if desired, but again, this assumes the attending is not in the OR or in another delivery which, at my hospital, they were probably 50% of the time. Of course this was a county hospital with 24/7 coverage with an attending and residents, so at hospitals where private physicians just come in to deliver and then leave, I would assume there’s possibly more “choice” of refusal for residents or students in training. Although if we’re being honest, the attendings did very few deliveries as the residents did the majority of them and in my experience, the residents did a better job most of the time. Also, I’m pretty sure every resident has at one point struggled to apply a vacuum to a baby’s head because they aren’t going to be perfect the first time (it’s not the easiest thing in the world to do). And there’s little room for refusal (as we’ve seen in Kimberly’s video) when you’re in a vulnerable position and people are yelling that your baby needs to come out now.
The statement “If a woman has allowed the resident and there is a need for a vacuum it can be trusted that the situation is under control and going well” doesn’t make sense to me–I don’t think this is an assumption that can be made. The only thing I agree with is that a woman is free to decline anything.
The next statement that “it is usually easily recognizable by any medical professional that was not present for delivery to know that the personal recount of the mother is not accurate and that she truly doesn’t have a full understanding of what had occurred” is only true in the fact that a mom may not have an accurate idea of what happened only because no one told her. I will attest to the fact that I have had more than one patient that has given me their account of a story and after reviewing her medical records, I can tell you I know exactly what she is talking about and exactly why not everything was mentioned in the record. Most of the time, I take the mothers word over the medical records because I’ve personally seen forced ceseareans dictated in the operative report as “elective cesareans” and have a large distrust for the accuracy and completeness of medical records in general. Yes, some women definitely have given me accounts that I can tell they’re partially confused about based on what they’re saying, but it’s usually not because of the fact that they’re ignorant women who know nothing–it’s clear to me that they weren’t given details about their condition and, therefore, didn’t fully understand what was going on. This, however, relates more to diagnoses (preeclampsia, cholestasis of pregnancy, etc.) and less with actual delivery events.
I do completely agree with her point of debriefing; I think that should absolutely be required after every delivery, traumatic or not, because sometimes there are events that occur during deliveries that, even if explained, mothers may have had too much going on at the moment to fully understand. I can imagine it’s difficult to process the exact implications of a cesarean or episiotomy, etc. when everyone is rushing around and yelling and mom is pushing and alarms are going off, etc. So, some trauma could possibly be avoided just by discussing these events with mom and confirming or distilling any misconceptions at that time.
Further Reading & Resources:
“Prevention and elimination of disrespect and abuse during facility-based childbirth,” World Health Organization (2014) (link)
#BreaktheSilence, a photo campaign by Improving Birth (link)
Exposing the Silence Project, a traveling photo project created by Lindsay Askins & Cristen Pascucci on birth trauma in America (link)
“Rinat Dray is Not Alone” (2015) (link) and “Forced Episiotomy: Kelly’s Story” (2014) (link), articles by Human Rights in Childbirth
“Deadly Delivery: The Maternal Health Care Crisis in the USA,” Amnesty International (2011) (link)
“Exploring Evidence for Disrespect and Abuse in Facility-Based Childbirth,” Bowser & Hill via USAID (2010) (link)
A former communications strategist at a top public affairs firm in Baltimore, Maryland, Cristen Pascucci is the founder of Birth Monopoly, co-creator of the Exposing the Silence Project, and, since 2012, vice president of the national consumer advocacy organization Improving Birth. In that time, she has run an emergency hotline for women facing threats to their legal rights in childbirth, created a viral consumer campaign to “Break the Silence” on trauma and abuse in childbirth, and helped put the maternity care crisis in national media. Today, she is a leading voice for women giving birth, speaking around the country and consulting privately for consumers and professionals on issues related to birth rights and options.
Consult with Cristen | Resources + more Articles
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I agree with the wonderful passion to protect women from themselves and others. For too long women hae not trusted their bodies or their faculties especially wehn vulnerable in the birthing room of over done birth rooms. I come from Asutralia where there has been a softening of the process of birth with furniture wall paper and soft music. But the opposit end of the spectrum is to inspire fear of harm to the baby with Soft words I have heard from women mnay times. ‘Do you want a healthy baby or more unsbutle Do you want your baby to die’. this is all in support of inducing labor with chemicals and epidural and caesarian birth. I spen nearly 35 years in teh clnical field and 15 of htem supervising students in varieous types of hospital s in Melbourne Victoria and I saw with my own eyes the deterioration in control by women of their births. It seesm like the more woemn took control the more likely they were bullied into intervetnions. That is my rant for today.
Beverley Walker Senior Lecturer at RMIT University 1989 -1998. IBCLC 1996 – 2005 Trained at the Melbourne Women’s in 1962 and taught at the Mercy Hospital for Women?????? for 6 years.1983 -1989 nearly 50 years in practice. Masters in Bioethics and the Law at Monash University with Professor Peter Singer and Helga Kuhse and Dr. Justin Oakley. I hoped Bieothics would help me to understand and change unethical practices. It slightly did because as a Senrio Lecturer I had to set and example. I was shocked when I went ot the University of North Carolina Hospital in Chapel Hill, and saw the wall to wall floor to ceiling machinery. The nurses had gun holsters for their mobiles and theatre gowns and theatre style shoe covering with face masks. One nurse asked why I was taking photoss. I said ti is all so quaint and old fashioned. In Melbourne we wear ordinary street dress and do not treat pregnancy like a disease. This nurse wanted to come back to Australia with me. However I exaggerated as things just went down hill from the 1990s especially in Victoria.
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I had two unpleasant but relatively neutral births before my third child. With no proof it was necessary, other than the holidays, my OB pushed me into induction twice. I refused after testing and NSTs showed all was well, but it made no difference to him. When I came in, in active labor, I had been at the hospital for several hours. He showed up to tell me he’d been “about to call the police” on me because I had refused to be induced and then ignored me until delivery, where he acted as though my presence was an irritation to him. At one point, when I was exhausted while pushing and had not allowed to drink or eat, he started yelling at me and started threatening me that if I couldn’t just “get it over with” that he’d get the forceps and pull my baby out of me. (I’d been pushing less than 20 minutes, with an epidural.) My doula and husband were mortified by his behavior. It has stuck with me ever since, nearly two years ago, and his only response to all of this was to drop me as a patient before my six week follow up. But you’re right, Mary, despite those having been present being disturbed my by treatment, and despite how it terrified me to have to find a new OB for this pregnancy (there are no other hospitals here and not many doctors who will take my insurance at any given point, and no midwives), I must have just imagined it.
And I’ve had it easy compared to other women.
Yikes.
I’d like to thank these birth professionals for speaking out on behalf of birthing women. I’m sure it must be hard to speak out against common practices and to admit to possibly contributing to someone’s trauma. But I appreciate so much that they get it, that they’re willing to speak out, that they’re working to make things better.
I’m very lucky to live in a city with (relatively) good, mother-centric, maternity care. These stories hurt my hart. I see change coming and hope by the time my nieces are having babies moms birth wishes will be respected. Thanks for shedding light on this very important topic.
As a RN for 38 years most of which has been in L&D and a mother of 10 and natural deliveries and seeing the deliveries of 5 grand children, I think I can say with some authority that all of these “stories” and “experiences” come from piece of personal perspective and not necessarily from the whole cloth. Yes, I have been angered when doctors refuse or force certain “treatments”, yes there are nurses who are tired and “pushy” but most nurses I have worked with only want the best experience for the mother and her child. Most nurses care a great deal about how the mother feels, how her baby is doing and what they can do to make the experience just like they hoped for in their birth plan. Does it always happen? NO. But as a nurse, I can say I try very hard to make the experience one to remember with pride and fondness. I have also witnessed with great relief the delivery of that child who certainly would not be alive today if the mother had tried to deliver him at home. I have also seen the handicapped child whose mothers chose a home delivery by a lay midwife that did not resuscitate the infant appropriately. I could tell you some “horror” stories of botched home deliveries but why. Birth is a miracle and I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to witness this miracle numbering in the hundreds. Birth is not a guaranteed “happy ending” but as nurses in the hospital we try very hard to make it so.
I think it would benefit you greatly to talk to a Certified Professional Midwife and to attend a homebirth. Your perspective seems to be that babies are only saved in a hospital but let me tell you, many many women die in hospitals as well from causes stemming from medical interventions and repeat cesareans. I’m extremely grateful for advanced medicine in emergent situations, but that in no way means that hospitals are the safest place to give birth.
Ok did you read the article at all? These stories are from the medical professionals! These are not the mother’s perspective. The fact that you put stories and experiences in parenthesis to me means that you are at the worst a participant in some of these practices and at the very least blind to or in denial of the obstetrical violence that occurs today.
You know what, those stories of botched births with lay midwives DO need to be told. Every type of birth with every type of outcome in any setting has a right to be told. How else do we effect change?
Pain is what the patient says it is. So is emotional pain. Just because you may happen to work in a place where either obstetrical violence is limited or you’ve become so numb to it you just don’t see it, does not mean it does not happen.
Instead of attempting to discredit or wave away their stories, perhaps you should try listening.
And how many “handicapped” babies have you seen birthed in hospital?
I have seen plenty…
We are lucky in Australia where we don’t see many “lay midwives”(some but not many). Registered midwives are all university trained and only attend home births if trained to do so.
Birth trauma is very real.
We need to listen to women!
In a true emergency, a woman won’t care about the emergency Caesarean section or the hand in her uterus or hand trying to keep the baby’s head from compressing the cord. These are RARE events.
Women need to have INFORMED consent when we start an oxytocin drip or break their waters or use forceps/ vacuums.
I see midwives getting their internal examinations double checked by doctors all the time. Who checks theirs?
When they claim “failure to progress”, how many women really failed to deliver before dinner!!!
We know caesareans occur less often overnight and on week-ends.
Why is that????
Failure to delivet before dinner. What a great line! Both of my son’s were C-sections. They were both delivered on different days 4 years apart at 7:34pm and 7:39pm after I labored all day and “failed to progress” despite everything they did to try to speed up labor. I find the time of their births very telling.
You’re an RN? How did you make it through all that college with all that ignorance?
Please tell me what is one sided about a nurse who not only instigated a pelvic exam without notice, but refused to remove her hand when my contraction started up and I asked her to remove it.
I said, “Lady, get your hand out of me.” And she said, “I have a name. I told you my name already. Address me by my name.” And refused to remove her hand. I begged her to please just, “get your hand out of me.” But she insisted that I can “give [her her] name.” My husband even encouraged me to address her by name, never giving me her name, even tho I met this nurse in transition.
To give you an accurate idea of where my labor was at, without the other crap I had already been put through, I can tell you that I went from there centimetres delivered in sixteen minutes. In that time I met this nurse, was introduced, was abused by her, had her hold my baby inside me just a few minutes later (four contractions) while waiting for the doctor, and delivered a seven pound three ounce son.
You heard me. During a time when my body was opening a half a centimetre a contraction, this heartless b*tch thought that I should be more respectful to someone who doesn’t they stick their hand in my vagina and who won’t remove it when asked unless your use the right phrasing. I did not curse at her once despite the torture she did to me.
My crime was I couldn’t remember her name in transition.
Ask my husband. He was there. I’ll never forgive him completely for not telling her to stop being a stuck-up b*tch and “get your f****** hands or of my wife now!” I will never birth without a doula again. If I can have one support person, it’ll be my doula because she won’t just sit there and bully me with the staff.
Charlene, I’m so sorry that happened to you. Hope you can work things out with your husband. Doulas are great, though. Birth should be a time of family bonding. Yet hospitals physically and emotionally tear families apart. Hospitals need to change.
What that nurse did was perverse, dangerous, abusive and outrageous.
And I, as a labor and delivery RN for 33 years, can tell you some horror stories of botched in-hospital deliveries!
There are no words to convey to Mary how condescending and patronizing her comments, describing what she perceives as reality on her unit. Ugh. I am a nurse midwife, and I particularly did not care for the characterization that birthing women seek out care with us as a result of these “embellishments and misunderstandings” they read in discussion forums such as this. Evidence-based practice has shown that for normal, low-risk birth, nurse midwives have a great track record for safety and positive outcomes.
I decided to become an OB/L&D nurse after experiencing first hand the maltreatment experienced by a number of posters. I was treated like I had lost my mind, attempting a VBAC after 2 C/S. I hired a qualified RN/doula to labor with me at home, until it was time to head to the hospital. I was forced to switch providers about 32 wks, because my original provider refused to accept the risk of a VBAC, insisting that I be labored at a tertiary center 120 miles away. My new care providers told me that if I arrived at hospital at 8 cm, they would “let” me VBAC. I arrived at 7 cm, and was cut, because I was too tired to advocate for myself, and the epidural was looking very attractive at that point. The RN (her name was Loretta), berated me on how irresponsible I was to take my baby’s life so cavalierly by putting him at such great risk. Mind you, I had done the research, reviewed the literature, and determined that there was a 2-3% risk for uterine rupture, but a 97% chance that things would be OK. IF I knew then, what I know now, I would *probably* have labored in-house, but that’s another story, shaped in large part by the pathologization of labor/birth by my first position in at tertiary care facility with a high-risk population.
I felt like such an idiot.
I am guessing I was even more of a pain, as I was a change of shift section at 0630 am, my husband passed out cold just as the uterine incision was made, necessitating that she get a wheelchair to get him out of the OR. I can still hear her running around, saying “Shit, shit, shit” – so professional! The anesthesia provider was disinterested during the case, reading the sports section of the Detroit Free Press, and did not pay attention until my husband was out cold. 5 attempts for an epidural, and he was told me that he couldn’t get it, I would have to go to sleep. At that point, I was done, and said, “I haven’t labored for 28 hours for you to not be able to do your ******g job, SO YOU TRY AGAIN. He got it on the next attempt. My bad.
After that whole lovely experience, I swore that I would become an L&D nurse, so I would never allow a patient to be treated the way I was. And I did. And then a nurse midwife. So, thank you, Loretta RN for helping me define my life’s purpose. Ladies, keep speaking your truth.
I am listening. God Bless!
What hospital did you deliver at?
This happened in Windsor ON close to 30 years ago ….
Were you able to prevent or stop mistreatment while a labor and delivery nurse? Did you suffer any consequences for standing up to the doctor?
I imagine that some nurses do actually care but are afraid to speak up. Hospital policy should require that abusive behavior is reported with no negative consequences from superiors.
I could not stand by and watch the lies and abuse towards the laboring women. I have seen (on video birth stories) doctors suture tears without local anesthetic. In one case the nurse said, I have the lidocaine .. and the doctor flat out ignored her! I’d be sick. Could not handle it. Takes an unusually unemotional person to be a witness and participant in such nasty behaviors.
Why would anybody be a labor and delivery nurse or obstetrician if they are annoyed by the women and treat them badly? Why???!
Almost 30 years ago I gave birth to my second child. The child came fast. Within an hour in the hospital, I had the baby. Upon entry I felt the nurses were being so nasty to me. I was already in intense labor and had just made it to the hospital. OK, I was a baby. I was young, and probably scared. I talked myself out of my perception though. Finally, the dismissive nastiness went on too long. I was emphatic, “Can you just be nice to me?” The nurses were taken aback and changed their behavior immediately.
I had not thought about that exchange in decades. Wow.
Btw, we had insurance and were in one of the VERY best hospitals in the city (in US). The care was exemplary. That night I was just another woman in labor “not acting right.” We are not all perfect human beings nurses included. I’m glad this discussion is happening because we love nurses.
In 1963 I presented at a very good hospital with my membranes ruptured and my baby in a breech position. After unsuccessfully trying to turn the baby the nurses simply turned off the lights in my labor room and closed the door so my screaming wouldn’t bother the other patients as much. I admit the pain was almost more than I could bear, but all I was offered for it was Demerol, which was sort of like saying, “Here, bite on this stick.” I went so crazy I barely recall yanking my IV out of my arm and throwing the blood pressure cuff at a nurse. Finally they simply knocked me out. When I woke up I started screaming for fear that I would have to go through even one more contraction, but I had already delivered and was in my room. I was terrified of ever becoming pregnant again. I got no help, comfort or explanations from either the doctor or the nurses.
My VBAC was benign in comparison to so many traumatic birth stories, but I will never forget being disregarded by every medical professional in the L&D room with me after I’d been told to rest and not push when my daughter decided the time was now and I began pushing involuntarily, as if some force had overtaken my body. I still remember their disinterested attitude as I was telling them, I can’t stop pushing and they kept telling me I couldn’t push. Thankfully, my wonderful resident came in just then and I told her what was happening. She caught my daughter within minutes. Unfortunately, I had a bad tear. That tear was a result of two different male doctors coming in while I was still being “allowed” to push who told me that id probably need a c-section. Therefore, I didn’t wait for the “ring of fire” to subside and just powered through. Never saw either of those men again.
So what caused them to tell me id need a caesarean? Failure to progress? Unlikely, since I was admitted to the hospital at 8:55 and my daughter was born at 12:54.
Icing on the cake: my first hospital bill was for a c-section that took place 24 hours before I went into spontaneous labor. Still don’t know what that’s about.
To Kathleen: if you’re a good nurse who makes sure patients are well cAred for, good. If you know many nurses who are the same, great. But acting like those of us who had negative births are not remembering accurately–especially when you say yourself that you’ve witnessed problematic behavior–kind of smacks of #notallnurses kind of attitude. “I’m a good nurse; ergo, women who say they had a traumatic birth are misrepresenting the situation.” Makes no damn sense. Some advice, though: using quotes around words like experience and stories is condescending and you should stop it.
My VBAC birth story is long and set in a military hospital in Japan 2 years ago. And it consistets of a disrespectful doctor who told me that if I didn’t go into labor by my due date he was doing a csection. I said no way that we would do stress tests to make sure baby was ok and a date was just a guess. He told me he would put me on a plane right then and send me to the states. I laughed in his face and said oh right at 38 weeks an airlines going to take me. Let’s just say that things didn’t go well. Fortunately he was on vacation when I did go into labor, a week after my due date.and I had a different doctor who helped me get my VBAC.
After 24 hours of Laboring before I came into the hospital scared that asshole of a doctor was there, thankfully he wasn’t. The nurses where shocked when I told them I wanted to be on my Knees and freaked out I was squatting hooked up to ivs and monitors Laboring by hanging onto the back of the bed. They all said they never saw someone do that. Wow really? Probably not because they had me on my back with my legs up, because gravity isn’t a thing?
And at the end when everyone in the room was screaming at me to push including my husband. and the nurse pushing an oxygen mask into my face yelling push. I screamed at everyone to shut up and yanked the mask from her and put it on. And against all the arguing and off handed dismissal of
My birth plan to the eye rolls and asking a million questions and fighting to have a VBAC my little guy came out. Healthy and perfect. And I was able to walk Around in 2 hours and hold my baby rather than immobile and in pain for 3 weeks unable to even pick up my own child because some Doctor wanted me to birth on his schedule. Whoever Mary is I can tell her flat out she is either blind to what happens at hospitals or she is lying. Because I’m not either.
Thank you. Thank you for being the voice of silenced women. Thank you for being my voice. Thank you for seeing us and informing us. May the respect and value of women be so in all areas of life, and starting with the beginning of life.
Even in Denver: the Mecca of healthcare, I had a terrible birth experience.
I had undiagnosed Gestational Diabetes, which made both my baby and me huge. He ended up being 9 lbs, jaundiced, and had severe bruising to his head and a conical skull.
I saw no fewer than 8 lead staff people (MDs, NPs, Residents) throughout my pregnancy, and 3 different attendings during L&D. I was on display for all the world to see, and dignity didn’t seem to be a concern for the most part.
I was induced because the staff was worried about infection, no one looked at my birth plan, I wasn’t “allowed” to get out of bed, and when I was told I couldn’t eat, I sent my husband to the cafeteria for a grilled cheese, fries, and fruit. Can’t eat? What I can’t do is have a low blood sugar and die in the middle of labor.
After 17 hours of labor with no epidural, it was obvious that my son was stuck.
With contractions less than 5 seconds apart, I was told to stop pushing. It was agonizing! I was being a little vocal about it, and I was told, “Be quiet, you’ll scare the other women.” To which I said, “They should be scared!” There was some comment about how they had enough sense to take the epidural…real nice.
I had a c-section, and my son was rushed to the NICU. I laid in recovery with a nurse I didn’t know.
The following day, a resident came in and apologized for not calling the physician the night before. Apparently, waiting for the c-section had risked my life and the life of my child. It was nice that she was sorry.
Most of the nurses in L&D were wonderful, but there was one sadist who would shamelessly (and without consent) grab my breasts, squeeze them painfully, and proudly show the students in the room how to express milk.
I could go on about neglect in the nursery, and the circumcision that I changed my mind about but was performed anyway.
It was such a terrible experience that I chose to not try again, and I have an only child as a result.
I am very pleased that these stories are starting to surface and that the medical profession is taking them seriously.
A pregnant woman is not a vessel, or a mother first; she is an individual.
That’s horrible you experienced this! If a doctor did that to my breasts, I am fairly certain I’d punch him in the face. I gave birth to my last child alone at my house because at my previous birth the room was a revolving door! And I would do it again. Home birth ftw! (As long as I’m low risk of course.)
Ugh I had a similar thing happen with both my kids. With my daughter I was scared and had trouble getting her to latch. The medication she was on made her sluggish so she’d nuzzle, suck, then pass out. a feeding took foorreeevverrr. While in the nicu the nurse pretty much just walked up, opened the curtain, and began grabbing my breasts and shoving the baby on me. She had been sleeping on me and kinda lazily suckling but I guess that wasn’t good enough for the nurse? The NICU was incredibly small with terrible security (supposed to be two people at a time, one parent one guest over 16. Families would come in with little kids and just leave the door wide open withouth scrubbing up, would gawk at other babies and touch them. My mother and her boyfriend got in without me several times by knowing my band number, and got to hold and carry my baby around.), So with the curtain open a whole room of people could see me. As soon as the nurse decided to “help”, Gracie started screaming and choking as the nurse was with one hand holding her on and with the other trying to forcefully express milk. I didn’t know what the hell was going on and thought that must be ok since the nurse is doing it. Maybe my baby was just difficult? The nurse would never hurt my kid right? Only after she choked out milk and I started pulling away did the nurse decide she wasn’t hungry. And left us. Curtains still open.
With my son I birthed at a different hospital (Mary birch! Amazing but still had issues, didn’t almost hemorrhage be of negligence so I’ll call that one a win). Once again nurses just felt like it was totally ok to come over and grab my breasts to reposition them or express milk with ever asking or stating they were going to touch me. Never mind the lactation consultant had said we were pro and didn’t need any assistance. The nurses knew best though, right?
My whole birthing experience was hell. I was just going to share that but screw it, I’ve got time to kill.
With Gracie I had issue from start to finish. I had Terrible HG and vomited every single day, minimum five times for forty two weeks. My doc didn’t believe me and refused to give me meds. I didn’t know it was as bad as it was and thought it must be normal since my doc wasn’t concerned. It wasn’t until I was hospitalized every other weekend at 30weeks weighing 100lbs soaking wet in winter clothes that i realized this couldn’t be normal and sought another doc. Thanks to terrible insurance I ended up not finding one and went without care because insurance wouldn’t switch me. My old doc kept pushing me to induce and i refused because he wasn’t giving me a reason. I ended up birthing at Grossmont hospital. I’d originally gone in for vomiting and they saw how far I was and the doc came in and explained in depth what the dangers were, that I wasn’t effaced and my cervix was completely closed, small and rock solid. That I’d didn’t look like I’d deliver on my own and hed rather keep me and induce me. He explained how the pitocin worked and was essentially great…all’s well so far, little did I know I was going to have the attending deliver, not him. If his shift ended I’d get someone new. So things progress and i am stuck at 4cm all night. I request my epidural (on my mind advice i got it as soon as they would give it to me). The anesthesiologist comes in super grumpy and disinterested. While raising my bed he knocks my iv pole over and i pretty much dived to grab the line while he and the nurse stood there. (It took an iv finder and a call to trauma to get it in i was NOT losing it). No apology or nothing just get back in bed. He missed maybe four or five times grazing nerves and causing some REALLY intense burning pain. He leave and maybe an hour later im still in pain. My legs are numb but that’s it. Hed put it in to low. So my nurse calls for a bolus and two hours later he comes stomping in half asleep PISSED he had to come back in. He the proceeded to ram the plunger down as hard as he could (ow?!) Huffed and stormed out. No warning, no here’s what im giving you. My nurse told me what it was. Several times throughout the night i had nurses che k me without asking. I’d wake up to a hand up my crotch. Finally morning hit and they came in to give me my meds. I told them I needed something for nausea first since I hadn’t eaten and i would vomit if i took anything. The morning nurse yelled at me so i took my stuff and wouldn’t you know I vomited immediately. So she had to go get more. I didn’t see another person for almost four hours when I buzzed, they checked me and i was crowning. The new doc came in and in the literal five minutes it took to deliver decided I needed an episiotomy (didn’t tell me). Everything was fine from there until they took me to my room. The nurse informed me I needed to empty my bladder as a full bladder could keep uterus from shrinking and i could bleed. Well i didn’t have to pee cuz i was still numb. We get to my room anf i still can’t feel so she says buzz her and she’ll come back. Not to go without her as my legs were noodles and i could hurt myself. So about five minutes later I have the most intense urge to pee i have ever had in my life. I page the nurse and wait. And wait. And wait it took her nearly fourth minutes to get to my room. At this point i am literally green from pain, crying involuntarily, and shaking. I have never hurt that bad in my life. She finally comes in and my ex had to homd me uo to go to the bathroon whilethe nurse fiddled with her phone. She mumbled something about being in the “hat” on the toilet and got mad i couldn’t and her. So my ex half drags me to the bathroom and I peed so much I’m surprised my bladder didn’t rupture. Not to mention the toilet being literally full of blood. The nurse stuck her head in when I was done, left and i was alone for the rest of the day until the food people came in. No check up for all the bleeding. No questions after I told her my bad was fully soaked and leaking. Just left. The next nurse i saw woke me up doing those tummy “massages” to go shrink your uterus. Didn’t ask. Saw me asleep and just started going at it. They found out i had planned on doing an adoption and my treatment went from subpar to questionable neglect.
Mary birch was much better but we had issues. I went in for early labor and an awful dentaal abcess, and had a doc deny me pain med and tell me to my face i didnt deserve my baby because of my dental issue (let your imagination roam wth what 42 weeks of vomiting does for your teeth). During labor (I got there at 8cm) the head nurse kept yelling at everyone else and got mad when i told her to knock it off. Threatened not to give me my epidural while i was writhing in pain from a bad contraction. My son got to stay in my room that night even though I kept trying to tell them to take him to the nicu. The pedi came in to examine him and said he was fine and went to leave when I stopped him and told him what medications I was on and that my baby was obviously in withdrawal. A second check and wouldn’t you know he was an 8 on the scale they use (I can’t remember the name) and needed to go to the NICU immediately. On the bright side the NICU was amazing.
I’m a stroke risk BANNED from the class of medications that caused my prior episode. They didn’t listen & gave me an entire BAG full of the stuff telling me “It’s ok we can fix it” You can fix an explosion in my brain? I thought you were supposed to PREVENT it?
I was told “I was obviously in pain if I was making so much noise” instead of changing position to get off of KNOWN broken bones in my pelvis & injected MULTIPLE TIMES in 40 minutes to silence me against my EXPLICIT WISHES (see above) & I’m a GRAND Multi Para at that, that MEANS this body has PROVEN that it knows what to do & STILL I was ignored.
I even had an OB practice THROW OUT my records after a move & INSIST I was DUE at 32 weeks because of my size (BTW that baby measured SMALLER by 2 weeks then my prior 3 children had)
NO we are NOT making this stuff up. Why would we?
This is a brilliant piece of written work. Thank you for all who participated. It is about time that Midwives (in Australia), Obstetric Nurses and Midwives (in the US) reclaim their art, skill, practice and documentation of the continuum of pregnancy, labour, birth, postpartum. It is time these professionals say together with women ‘enough is enough’. Medicine has continued to erode and control the scope of practice of midwives. Midwives are a profession in their own right. Midwives have midwifery skills and the patience that is required to proved informed guidance that assists women to give birth. One midwife-One woman is the ideal. That woman knows her midwife, has continuous contact and is respected in her journey to at least six postnatal weeks. So I say as an experienced midwife of 40 years (a mother and grandmother), midwife to the wonderful mother of her grandsons and the wonderful mother of her neice that we rise up around the World and let the medical profession know that we will no longer tolerate erosion of our professional skills. We rise up and let them know we are reclaiming our scope of practice and will not tolerate any further controls. Most Obstetricians are perfectly skillded for obstetrics and that is how it should be.The world will be a better place when women the experts in birth are no longer traumatised, disresptected, coerced with fear and forced to play the medicalised game. Midwives working in medical models have a responsibility to do the same and no longer accept the well established behaviours that we are partly responsble for allowing this to occur.
As a Labor and Delivery nurse who has been in the hospital for 10+ years I can tell you that the stories I hear and see have taken place over and over and over. I have just spent the the last four years finishing my FNP so I will not have to be a part of this birth delivery system any more! Just a few of the incidents I have personally witnessed; The “cut and suck” method, whereby every baby (even if it #5 and crowning)….is delivered with a generous epis and kiwi vacuum. I have seen episiotomies performed on women with NO ANESTHETIC. Not because it was an emergency but just because “he could”. I have also seen the cervix pulled completely out with no pain meds “just to make sure its fine” and also the whole hand in the uterus thing. These seem to be a “punishment” for those too “stupid” to not have an epidural. I gave birth to my 5 kids naturally 4 at home and 1 in hospital for being a little early. I am so thankful I did that!!! When the nurses are sitting around and discussing the latest horror on our unit, I remind them that this crap is the exact reason I had home births! To think that will all the progress over the last 35 years when it comes to patient education and information over the internet; what the hell must it have been like back then??!!
I wrote the book My Mother Was A Spaceship: Breaking the don’t tell Rule, published in 2013, of stories told by women about cruel treatment ion America’s maternity wards. It covered things like: A good mother is willing to suffer anything for her children. Her passion for the safety of her children, however, is not a license to abuse her during her work of giving birth. …in spite of your mothers, your sisters, your men, covertly enforcing the cultural, which says a good mother will suffer anything for her child, even abuse from a medical system…here are your voices.
I am angry reading this!!! I experienced do much of this in my second birth and it was with a nurse midwife! She tried scare tactics. She yelled at me. She said I would be held liable for my “dead baby”. I heard them laughing and not so quietly talking about me at the desk. She practically say on my stomach “to check” if the placenta had come out then stuck her hand up afterwards. Oh ya… Just to find out that “oops, it did”. Telling me the horror story of the person related to so and so’s cousin who’s baby died bc she refused a C-section like I was. Snickering, rude, nasty people. Bc she was due to leave from her shift an hour after I arrived. Bc I refused the male “midwife” that was coming on shift next. Why? Bc I was a rape victim and did not want myself exposed in a vulnerable position and time to a man that I didn’t know but once ever met. Some of the things, many, pissed me off at the time. But I’m flamed again bc apparently, it’s common practice. It’s sad and sick. In many states home birth is illegal; but thus abuse, which under anyone else would be a crime, is legal???
What a powerful piece that should be required reading, especially for Mary. I hope she is open to these eloquent points of view.
I cannot imagine what would bring a health care provider to summarily dismiss the experience of so many patients. At the very least, you would imagine she would understand that perceived trauma can be just as devastating as “empiric” trauma. I am a doctor and experienced birth trauma. My experience was not as bad as many I have seen, but I was bullied and ultimately gave in to many interventions I did not want. I will say additionally that during medical school (I am not an OB, so that is the last time I saw things from the provider perspective) I routinely witnessed totally inappropriate care during labor, as did many of my classmates.
Please feel free to contact me by email. I am interested in discussing further, especially as a health care provider myself.
I am a L&D nurse for the last 2 years. I was 19 with my first child. I was young but informed I had taken all the classes and read all the books. I had a horrible traumatic birth experience. I was ignored and left flat on my back for 14 hours. When I needed to pee I was told, “No you don’t, that’s only your water.” When I I got scared because the pain was intensified, the nurse looked at me rolled her eyes and said, yeah! Breath. Then walked out the door. After all that I had a c-section not because I was done but because my doctor told me if I didn’t consent I was going to kill my baby and it would be my fault. When I started to cry and said I just didn’t want one. The nurse came in stuck the consent under my chin and said, so are you going to kill your baby or not. Now as a nurse I have looked over my records and I know that this was bs. At the time I had my daughter I felt bullied and ignored and traumatized. Now I’m mad and repulsed. I am a nurse, I am a patient advocate it is my job to make sure the patient is heard and cared for. I love my job it’s the only thing I have ever wanted to do. My personal experiences have made me a better nurse because I will NEVER not explain what I am doing, why I am doing it. I always encourage questions and do everything I can to meet the patients needs and wants. You know what I have found in the 2 years I have worked in L&D that if you included the patient and family in the process you rarely have someone who feels ignored miss treat or traumatized. I am not perfect no one is but I think that so many women and families would be happier and healthier if they were included and educated in the process. I will also a test to the fact that I do not let me family have babies without me there. Not because all nurses or doctors are callous or in a hurry. But some are and after the experience I had, I will always be there to make sure that the system dose not fail them as well. I have been a nurse for almost 10 years and I have stories from many areas and most nurse and doctors are amazing caring people. But that dose not mean that they all are.
I feel your pain. Your experience is almost exactly like mine. I had just turned 20. I wasn’t allowed to pee, move or have anything to drink for 16 hours. My first nurse was green and refused to give me pain meds or the epidural after 10 hours of labor and I was having severe back contractions/ muscle spasms and felt like my spine was being yanked out. I was screaming and they did nothing to help. It caused permanent damage to my spine, longismus and illiopsoas muscles and chronic muscle spasms. I couldn’t bend over for 6 months, even to change diapers. I was finally given pain meds that didn’t really work and 2 hours later when the new nurse came on shift, I was given an epidural and thanking the nurse while crying. I was in so much pain, I didn’t feel the epidural. Then when I asked for an episiotomy, I was denied one by the resident who said, “we don’t do those”, and My perineum split front to back. I wanted to get out of the room and I was denied a wheelchair, because the nurses were talking about me rudely and were so condescending. I didn’t understand why. I asked for very little. Then the next day a new nurse decided she was taking me off my pain meds and tried to deny me them, even though my doc had told me to take them. She said I didn’t need them and my mom immediately said, you aren’t the doctor and that’s not his orders. I felt judged by all of these nurses who I knew were talking about me, because I heard them, and I didn’t feel I could trust any of them, except the one who gave me my epidural and had my back. None of these other women gave a crap about my well-being and treated me like a child, an inconvenience and a bad mom, no matter what I did with my son. It was so uncomfortable and I was paying two nights for a full birthing suite in the best maternity ward in Tyler, Tx and this was how I was treated. Never again. Sadly, there are so many worse stories and my experience was 18 1/2 yrs ago. I’m premed and I still see nurses, even in other field neglect and disrespect patients at their most vulnerable.
I feel your pain. Your experience is almost exactly like mine. I had just turned 20. I wasn’t allowed to pee, move or have anything to drink for 16 hours. My first nurse was green and refused to give me pain meds or the epidural after 10 hours of labor and I was having severe back contractions/ muscle spasms and felt like my spine was being yanked out. I was screaming and they did nothing to help. It caused permanent damage to my spine, longismus and illiopsoas muscles and chronic muscle spasms. I couldn’t bend over for 6 months, even to change diapers. I was finally given pain meds that didn’t really work and 2 hours later when the new nurse came on shift, I was given an epidural and thanking the nurse while crying. I was in so much pain, I didn’t feel the epidural. Then when I asked for an episiotomy, I was denied one by the resident who said, “we don’t do those”, and My perineum split front to back. I wanted to get out of the room and I was denied a wheelchair, because they said I wasn’t allowed and I needed to walk, as well as the fact the nurses were talking about me rudely and were so condescending. I didn’t understand why. I asked for very little. Then the next day a new nurse decided she was taking me off my pain meds and tried to deny me them, even though my doc had told me to take them. She said I didn’t need them and my mom immediately said, you aren’t the doctor and that’s not his orders. I felt judged by all of these nurses who I knew were talking about me, because I heard them, and I didn’t feel I could trust any of them, except the one who gave me my epidural and had my back. None of these other women gave a crap about my well-being and treated me like a child, an inconvenience and a bad mom, no matter what I did with my son. It was so uncomfortable and I was paying two nights for a full birthing suite in the best maternity ward in Tyler, Tx and this was how I was treated. Never again. Sadly, there are so many worse stories and my experience was 18 1/2 yrs ago. I’m premed and I still see nurses, even in other field neglect and disrespect patients at their most vulnerable.
It’s so interesting, horrifying and sobering reading all these stories.
In my country, epidurals are frowned upon, to the point that nurses will probably kinda hate you if you ask for it, you are considered a weakling, often being told “you weren’t screaming like that while you were making it”, it’s fairly common for them to expect bribes in order to give you an epidural, and it’s just as common to be told that “it’s too late” if you fail to give them an envelope. Cesareans are also frowned upon and will be avoided at all costs, unless there is no chance to do it differently, otherwise you or your baby being in danger will not stop them. Anesthesiologists will hate you for having a cesarean, women are routenelly tied to the bed during them, without being told or warned. This had my best friend nearly suffer a panic attack at the start of her Cesarean, no one told her anything, she got the anesthesia, told her how to lie and not to move, and all if a sudden people are tying you to a table. Cutting and stitching without consent or anesthesia is “just the way it’s done”, “if you don’t tell them they won’t even feel it” (while I’m not so convinced on the stitching part), the checking for placenta with the hand stab technique is also just how it’s done, it may happen to you a few days after birth if the doctor forgot and no one will tell you a word. Its routine. No one is allowed to see you before or during the birth except the nurses and doctors. It’s just terrifying. I am glad women started speaking out. We need to fight here.
Thank all of you for sharing information and your experiences.
I’m 30 weeks pregnant with my 6th child and still scared to death to deliver my baby at the hospital. My worst delivery was my 3rd child- also the only one I tried to have an epidural with. It started off bad to begin with because the dr called to tell me I had to come in to be induced. No reason whatsoever. She did not check me to see if I was dilated at all. Didn’t even check for protein in my urine. The real reason was that she was on call that weekend and wanted to be the one getting paid for the delivery. I didn’t know any better, so I went in. The anesthesiologist was so awful to me that after he left, the nurse said to me, “You know, I’m not supposed to say anything, but if I were you, I would request the other anesthesiologist. Do you want me to call him for you right now? I’m so sorry.”. Long story short with the epidural, it didn’t work. At all. I felt everything, including every single time he stuck the first needle in my back. I was sobbing, physically, uncontrollably shaking. At one point, he stopped, leaned over to my face and said to me, “Do you want to have the epidural, or do you want to cry?”. Thankfully, the nurse was the best nurse I think I’ve ever had. She held me like a mother would. She wiped my nose and face. She was really great. She was about the only positive from that experience. When the dr came in, she immediately ordered WAY TOO MUCH pitocin. Knowing what I know now, I’m 100% positive that I had pitocin overdose. When I finally asked for something to help ease the pain, she gave me THREE TIMES the normal dosage. I kid you not. They stuck my leg three times! When my son was finally born a few hours later, I was still so out of it that I could not even open my eyes, yet I felt everything. After he was born, I had the most severe cramping that I have ever had in my entire life- and that is even after having birthed 5 children almost completely naturally. This pain was way worse. And they just kept telling me, “Oh, it’s normal. You’re fine. It’s not that bad.”. That went on for a good, solid hour. After all this, his bilirubin was on the higher side. After being released, a nurse called me at home at about 9pm and told me I had to be at the office at 8:30 in the morning for his bilirubin to be checked. At the time, we only had 1 car and my husband could not get off work that quickly. I told her I could be there by 1pm. She informed me that if I was not there, she would call child services. We got to the office at 12:30. Come to find out, she called child services immediately after hanging up the phone the first time! When I spoke with the head doctor, he told me, “She called right after getting off the phone with you because she was angry.” What?!?!?!?! Those were his exact words!!!! Unbelievable what doctors are allowed to get away with! I did file a complaint with the hospital and whatever the board is called that monitors doctors. No one ever followed up with me. It’s just terrible what women have to go through sometimes.
I suffer PTSD after my birth trauma in Melbourne Australia. I was in labour for 10 days. Contracting well but dilating painfully slow. I was monitored multiple times which showed reassuring early labour traces – I was 39+4 & was told I would not be offered anything to speed labour up until I was 42 weeks. I couldn’t sleep and was wetting myself in the night with the powerful contractions. I went back to the hospital after my PG called and said I needed to be seen immediately. I was seen and they did a PAINFUL stretch and sweep and I started bleeding. I was told it was normal and to go home. An entire day later, I was finally admitted and still just 4cm. Baby wasn’t engaged & back to back and MAMMOTH SIZED hence the extremely slow progress. I was told my waters had to be broken and immediately had uterine hyperstimulation where I would get 4 x contractions in a row then a 15 second gap. This went on for 3 hours and by this point I was dropping out of consiousness. I was exhausted and hadn’t slept in 10 days and had no food. I screamed and was told to shut up. I begged for an epidural that took hours to arrive then only worked on my left. 28 hours and 50 minutes later, my blood pressure was hitting 190-200 & my daughter was stuck in a transverse arrest after the OB decided to force her down from my stomach to get her head to engage. She stayed stuck for 30 minutes while she started dying. Dangerously braydicardic and not recovering. I refused forceps wishing for an emergency c-section. They made me push longer and harder until I had no air in my lungs. I received a 3rd degree episiotomy extending 7cm. I had two other lacceration and started haemorrhaging. I was stiched up with ZERO pain relief as I tried to leap of the bed. I was only offered gas and air after 70 minutes of stiching when the OB decided to “Give up” putting me back together as I couldn’t stay still. I was forcefully packed with wadding which was removed ‘off the record’ (nowhere in notes anywhere!??) and I started haemorrhaging again however I wasn’t monitored for 12 hours…. by the time I was ‘found’ by a new nurse on shift, I had bled down to the mattress and hadn’t been offered pain relief, IV fluids, blood, food or water. My daughter also got crushed but luckily made it although she is 1.5 years old and still seeing specialists. She had other minor injuries which she recovered from after 5 weeks or so.
This could have been prevented by a c-section when it was FIRST indicated. When it was indicated for a second, third, fourth time… it never came and the interventions came far too late.
I am have been denied corrective surgery for a bladder prolapse, rectal prolapse and ‘botched’ perineum as as soon as there is a diagnosis, there is an injury and I am at risk of suing – So I get not help for my permanent injuries. I have been told none of this happened and I am making it up…. there were whitnesses.
It is time to break the silence!
When I gave birth, I was not informed when they were going to break my waters. I was told they were going to do a cervical check and then all of a sudden, I heard the doctor say “hook” and I sat up asking “hook?” but it was too late because he had pushed it in and I felt the gush. I also requested a different delivery doctor as the doctor they had there I had had a negative experience with a couple of years previously when I had gone to see her as a Gyno (ask me and I’ll tell you) but she was “the only one” -_- I also requested that the bunch of people who weren’t involved in my care (doctors to be, whatever) NOT be present in my room as I didn’t feel comfortable with them being there. I was ignored. After I gave birth, the day we were to take Aiden home, I had a nurse come into the baby’s room and say casually “so the doctor will be in shortly to talk to you about the hole in your son’s heart”…Umm, what!?? We hadn’t even been informed in the entire WEEK WE WERE THERE that our son had a hole in his heart!!!! We, the parents, didn’t know about a problem WITH OUR OWN CHILD BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL FAILED TO INFORM US ABOUT IT!!! >:( I am traumatized by the experiences I had during and after I delivered my son. This is here in Canada though that I delivered just over a year ago…Not the US :/
Thanks for writing this article. My 2nd baby was an emergency C-section. While I understand her life was in danger, the uncompassionate care I received from many of my initial nurses made the the event even more traumatic. From sticking a needle in my hand/arm over 8-times to find my vein, blowing out my veins, strapping me down to a table, not listening to me and making dumb remarks like, ‘We don’t like doing this’ as I shivered uncontrollably on the table telling them I was having chest pain to ‘calling time’ without telling me if it was because my daughter was dead or alive were just a few of the highlights. I want to have a third, but still can’t think of my last experience without tears and anxiety, so I’m not sure if I will be able to. The past few months, I’ve only just started learning that there are other moms out there that are experiencing something more than just ‘baby blues’ or postpartum, but another, very real after-birth emotion related to tramautic births and post-partum PTSD. Anyhow, articles like this really make me feel more released and free that I can identify what I went through. That it mattered. I hope this all makes sense, but it was an important read for me. Thank you.
“Surely what was done to you was out of medical necessity. You can’t understand what was happening; there’s more to the story. You should just be grateful you have a healthy baby. Stop talking.”
Quoted from above but really what everyone (both medical professionals and other mothers) said to me OVER AND OVER again. I got through half of the article, will have to finish tomorrow. 14 years ago, I suffered a terrible birth trauma. At the time, I thought my situation was unique and not a single person I shared this with actually believed me. Thank you.
Yes! As someone who has had two very similar but completely different birth experiences this hits home. I had pitocin administered just a few hours after my water broke simply because the on call MD wanted it. That was my first birth experience and I had no idea what pitocin was, what it does to you, the side effects, anything! I was just told it would help the contractions. I was 21 and alone in the room with no advocates. Fast forward several hours to where the pitocin dose was twice what it had begun at, my contractions were non-stop and I was nauseous and hyperventilating, but I had stopped dilating because my body could not relax enough to progress. What was the solution? The epidural I didn’t want. Fast forward again another 6 or so hours, the epidural is wearing off but I’m asked repeatedly if I feel like I need to push. After about the bazillionth time I finally say yeah I can try to push. And I push and I push and push and push and finally 2 hours and a very severe tear later, I finally deliver into the hands of who I can only assume is the doctor (who never even introduced herself to me). During the excruciating hours of pushing I could not feel the damage that was being done to the muscles in my legs. For the whole hospital stay, I basically had a dead leg that I could put weight on but could only move with extreme effort. It was sore for days afterward.
Now, with my second birth, I had at least met my doctor (one of a group of 5, all of whom you are required to meet because they do rotating on-call schedules so you can be certain one of them will be there for your delivery) and had the opportunity to discuss my previous experience. I was being induced, so I was aware that pitocin would be required, but she assured me that she would keep tabs on the dose and hold it once the contractions were 2 minutes apart. They got pretty intense but I was able to hold out and progress without pain medication for several hours. I was offered meds but told the nurses I would ask for it if I needed it, and they let it go and didn’t push me. I finally requested the epidural. Everything went so well that by the time I delivered the medication had barely taken effect and I was not completely numbed. It only took about 10 minutes of pushing. I was up and walking around within the hour. Aside from one unpleasant nurse (I told her I wanted to reposition because I was uncomfortable and she said “you’re in labor, you’re not supposed to be comfortable”), I count that as a fantastic experience. Though things did not go exactly as I had planned, I felt informed, involved, and most of all I felt that my care team listened to me!
Mary, nurses and doctors like her are the reason why so many women have qualms and fears of delivering in hospitals. Not enough time is spent on ethics and listening to patients and acting on their complaints. One lady in LA died, because the maternity nurse refused to get the doctor and they wouldn’t check her when she complained of symptoms that were her bleeding internally for over 12 hours, rushed in the operating room where she bled out, because of this exact attitude. It’s sad when Bosnia, Ukraine, Russia, Bulgaria, etc. have lower maternal death rates than the US, who supposedly has the best health care…… our whole medical system needs change and it starts with med schools, giving support to medical staff, including therapy and paid vacation, and making sure there are enough nurses, physicians, techs and staff to accommodate the amount of patients, instead of trying to make money off of people’s illnesses and need of medical care. The other issue is that so many people shouldn’t be working in the medical industry and their character/personality doesn’t make them good candidates for working with people, especially those who lack empathy. So much is wrong and it has to change soon.